I'm planning a trip to the Upper Peninsula in about a month, so I've
begun looking at charts. We'll be landing at Marquette, Escanaba,
Menominee, and Houghton. Or that's the plan anyway.

Marquette/Sawyer KSAW has one runway, 2 1/2 miles long x 150' pointed
1/19. Now the collective wisdom of airport designers in this part of
the country is that, if you have only one runway, you do it like 14/32
or 12/34. But I have to believe that whoever committed to 2 1/2 miles
of concrete -- out in the woods where he could have pointed it wherever
he wanted -- must have looked at prevailing winds. So are the winds
different because of the lake? I don't particularly want to divert from
there just because my little PA-28 can't handle a crosswind, although
there are several easy places to go.

Tia,
Mitty

Find the NOAA NWS page for that city.
There should be a wind history page somewhere.

On 9/4/04 4:28 PM, john smith wrote the following:

> Find the NOAA NWS page for that city.
> There should be a wind history page somewhere.
>
Thanks for the suggestion. The things you can find online are amazing.
Only took about 10 min. of digging:

"Climatic Wind Data for the United States"
http://nndc.noaa.gov/?http://ols.nndc.noaa.gov/plolstore/plsql/olstore.prodspecific?prodnum=C00518-PUB-A0001

And, sure enough, the Sawyer prevailing wind tends to be North or South!

Mitty

"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>
> Marquette/Sawyer KSAW has one runway, 2 1/2 miles long x 150' pointed
> 1/19. Now the collective wisdom of airport designers in this part of the
> country is that, if you have only one runway, you do it like 14/32 or
> 12/34. But I have to believe that whoever committed to 2 1/2 miles of
> concrete -- out in the woods where he could have pointed it wherever he
> wanted -- must have looked at prevailing winds. So are the winds
> different because of the lake? I don't particularly want to divert from
> there just because my little PA-28 can't handle a crosswind, although
> there are several easy places to go.
>

Could he have pointed it wherever he wanted? That runway is long, wide, and
thick, I imagine surface features and subsoils played a significant role.
Perhaps even more significant than prevailing winds. Post-WWII USAF bases,
as SAW was up to about eight years ago, tend to have one large runway or
parallel runways, no crosswind runways at all. The USAF didn't seem to care
that much about crosswinds.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:13:18 GMT, Mitty >
wrote:

>I'm planning a trip to the Upper Peninsula in about a month, so I've
>begun looking at charts. We'll be landing at Marquette, Escanaba,
>Menominee, and Houghton. Or that's the plan anyway.

Two points for that area.
Dress warm!
Take what your compass says with at least a grain of salt.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Marquette/Sawyer KSAW has one runway, 2 1/2 miles long x 150' pointed
>1/19. Now the collective wisdom of airport designers in this part of
>the country is that, if you have only one runway, you do it like 14/32
>or 12/34. But I have to believe that whoever committed to 2 1/2 miles
>of concrete -- out in the woods where he could have pointed it wherever
>he wanted -- must have looked at prevailing winds. So are the winds
>different because of the lake? I don't particularly want to divert from
>there just because my little PA-28 can't handle a crosswind, although
>there are several easy places to go.
>
>Tia,
>Mitty

Mitty wrote:

> Marquette/Sawyer KSAW has one runway, 2 1/2 miles long x 150' pointed

> 1/19.

It's that long so that B-52's and KC-135's could take off and land
there.

The runway is effectively 300' wide, so if you have a strong crosswind,
try landing perpendicular to the runway.

On 9/5/04 1:43 PM, Brien K. Meehan wrote the following:

>
> It's that long so that B-52's and KC-135's could take off and land
> there.
>

> The runway is effectively 300' wide

Really? Plates say 150.


, so if you have a strong crosswind,
> try landing perpendicular to the runway.
>

Yes, I thought of that. :-)

"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> The runway is effectively 300' wide
>>
>
> Really? Plates say 150.
>

When the USAF owned it the runways were 300' wide. Now they're 150' wide
with 75' paved shoulders. Half the pavement to maintain and plow that way.
At Kincheloe/Chippewa County they abandoned the south mile or so of runway
completely and reduced the width of the rest to 200'.

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:39:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> The runway is effectively 300' wide
>>>
>>
>> Really? Plates say 150.
>>
>
>When the USAF owned it the runways were 300' wide. Now they're 150' wide
>with 75' paved shoulders. Half the pavement to maintain and plow that way.
>At Kincheloe/Chippewa County they abandoned the south mile or so of runway
>completely and reduced the width of the rest to 200'.

We ended up with one of their snow plows, or rather blowers. The
thing can take the snow off the runway and put it over the taxiways.
I think we've only had one major snow storm since then.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>

Roger Halstead wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:39:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>>The runway is effectively 300' wide
>>>>
>>>
>>>Really? Plates say 150.
>>>
>>
>>When the USAF owned it the runways were 300' wide. Now they're 150' wide
>>with 75' paved shoulders. Half the pavement to maintain and plow that way.
>>At Kincheloe/Chippewa County they abandoned the south mile or so of runway
>>completely and reduced the width of the rest to 200'.
>
>
> We ended up with one of their snow plows, or rather blowers. The
> thing can take the snow off the runway and put it over the taxiways.
> I think we've only had one major snow storm since then.

Did the blower blow so hard that it blew all the storms away? :-)


Matt

On 9/5/04 4:39 PM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:

> "Mitty" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>The runway is effectively 300' wide
>>>
>>
>>Really? Plates say 150.
>>
>
>
> When the USAF owned it the runways were 300' wide. Now they're 150' wide
> with 75' paved shoulders. Half the pavement to maintain and plow that way.
> At Kincheloe/Chippewa County they abandoned the south mile or so of runway
> completely and reduced the width of the rest to 200'.
>
>

Interesting ... that will be the biggest runway I've ever landed on! I
told my wife that the runway was 150' and she was a bit skeptical as she
has flown in there commercial and thought it looked bigger. Now we know
why.

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:17:11 -0400, Matt Whiting
> wrote:

>Roger Halstead wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:39:30 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>>The runway is effectively 300' wide
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Really? Plates say 150.
>>>>
>>>
>>>When the USAF owned it the runways were 300' wide. Now they're 150' wide
>>>with 75' paved shoulders. Half the pavement to maintain and plow that way.
>>>At Kincheloe/Chippewa County they abandoned the south mile or so of runway
>>>completely and reduced the width of the rest to 200'.
>>
>>
>> We ended up with one of their snow plows, or rather blowers. The
>> thing can take the snow off the runway and put it over the taxiways.
>> I think we've only had one major snow storm since then.
>
>Did the blower blow so hard that it blew all the storms away? :-)
>
I guess that could be used as well and any other reason<:-))
The first time they plowed out, they made a pass down a taxiway and
then over to the runway. They discovered they were putting all the
snow back on the taxiway.

I think if they really tired they could take the snow off the taxiway
for 18/36 and put it out in the road.

Our weather here in Central Michigan has changed greatly over the last
50 years. We seldom get the big snows that were once common. They
measure the length of Winter weather by the time some lakes remain
frozen. In the last 50 years we have gained almost 5 weeks of warm
weather (that's warm by Michigan Standards, not Florida's)

Another indication is the first snows.
When I was a teen we'd have 8 to 10 inches of snow around the first
day of Pheasant hunting season. (October 15 or 20th). Now it's rare to
see snow, other than some flurries or a very light covering by
December.
OTOH we seem to have a lot more tornados although they tend to be on
the weak side.

In the 50's and 60's 5 and 6 foot drifts were not uncommon. I have
some photos of our cars being completely covered in the driveway (when
I lived out in the country by Breckenridge about 30 miles SW of here)
and those cars were far larger than most of today's. The last time I
saw drifts that deep was in 1984.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Matt

>
>I'm planning a trip to the Upper Peninsula in about a month, so I've
>begun looking at charts. We'll be landing at Marquette, Escanaba,
>Menominee, and Houghton. Or that's the plan anyway.
>
>Marquette/Sawyer KSAW has one runway, 2 1/2 miles long x 150' pointed
>1/19. Now the collective wisdom of airport designers in this part of
>the country is that, if you have only one runway, you do it like 14/32
>or 12/34. But I have to believe that whoever committed to 2 1/2 miles
>of concrete -- out in the woods where he could have pointed it wherever
>he wanted -- must have looked at prevailing winds. So are the winds
>different because of the lake? I don't particularly want to divert from
>there just because my little PA-28 can't handle a crosswind, although
>there are several easy places to go.

SAW was - at least when I was going to school in Marquette in the '70's - a
B-52 base. (Those guys partied like college kids!) Don't BUFFs have that funky
castoring crosswind landing gear? If I recall, the wind was usually out of the
north. I just flew over there on the way to Houghton a couple of months back
and saw several GA planes on the ground. NWA flies in and out of there
regularly - I don't think you'll have too much trouble.

Roger Halstead > writes:
[snip]
> In the 50's and 60's 5 and 6 foot drifts were not uncommon. I have
> some photos of our cars being completely covered in the driveway (when
> I lived out in the country by Breckenridge about 30 miles SW of here)
> and those cars were far larger than most of today's. The last time I
> saw drifts that deep was in 1984.

And I'll bet you had to walk five miles each way to and from
school through these snows and it was uphill with the wind
(howling, of course) in your face both directions. :-)

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:12:27 PST, (Everett
M. Greene) wrote:

>Roger Halstead > writes:
>[snip]
>> In the 50's and 60's 5 and 6 foot drifts were not uncommon. I have
>> some photos of our cars being completely covered in the driveway (when
>> I lived out in the country by Breckenridge about 30 miles SW of here)
>> and those cars were far larger than most of today's. The last time I
>> saw drifts that deep was in 1984.
>
>And I'll bet you had to walk five miles each way to and from
>school through these snows and it was uphill with the wind
>(howling, of course) in your face both directions. :-)

You missed Barefoot<:-))


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com